Wednesday, 21 October 2015

SUPERNATURAL THINK TANK - Theories and Thinky Thoughts on 11x02 "Form and Void"

Hi guys, welcome to the Think Tank, our brand new Thinky Thoughts article! Here we will look at ideas and theories that have sprung out of the latest episode, and dissect them and discuss them in a fun and positive way! The comments are open for you to join in and we're hoping that you'll add your awesome ideas and get a discussion going!

For sometime now - from way back when I was writing for The Winchester Family Business - Anna has been a regular commenter on my articles, offering some wonderful insight into different aspects of the story, as well as, well thought out theories. You may have read some of her amazing comments.

I love Anna's thinky thoughts, they always get my brain going too, so I invited her to become sweetondean's first regular contributing writer, and yay for us, she agreed! Anna will be writing regular articles looking at various aspects of the unfolding mythology and offering up some food for thought for us all to discuss.

So please join me in welcoming Anna, and let us know you're amazing thinky thoughts in the comments!

Now without any further adoo doo, welcome. to the first sweetondean, SUPERNATURAL THINK TANK!

Thinky Thoughts on Supernatural 11x02 "Form and Void"

Amy has honoured me with the privilege of writing down my thinky thoughts and sharing them all with you. Thank you Amy for this opportunity.  She's given it quite a catchy name and declared it an open forum for discussion of the topic at hand.  I thought I might start with "Form and Void" if that's here goes my thinky thoughts for last week.

I've always believed that from the moment we found out the boys had to be born, it was because God had wanted it.  Supernatural seemingly gives the impression, as declared by the angels and archangels, as well as Metatron, that God has seemingly left the planet.  These angels then took it upon themselves to run things, including throwing themselves a little Apocalypse.   In watching "Free to be You and Me" last night, it occurred to me, ....Sam asked Lucifer...why me? And Lucifer replied..."It had to be you Sam".  But it seemed to me that Lucifer couldn't provide a specific answer to Sam's question.  He simply noted, for no other reason that it had to be Sam.  It's as though Lucifer couldn't give a reason, he just knew.  Same could be said of Zach and his insistence and belief that Dean was the Michael Sword; "You are the chosen one" Zach told Dean...And yet he could never provide an answer as to why.  It leads me to believe that the angel's belief that the boys should be the vessels has been ingrained in them by God...because God knew, as he chose them, that it would be Sam and Dean that would prevent the Apocalypse. Any other vessel, any other psychic child would've failed...but Sam & Dean, chosen by God, didn't.

We find out in "Dark Side of the Moon" that God is in fact  ever present.  Joshua told the boys that God was on Earth. He noted that God didn't think that the Apocalypse was his problem. Yet he saved the boys from the church and put them on the plane. He brought Cas back...So perhaps if we delve deeper behind Joshua's words...God thinking the Apocalypse wasn't his problem was in fact true, because he knew all along that the boys were going to stop it...therefore, the Apocalypse wasn't a problem... and to say God didn't help along the way...I don't believe that to be so. I always found it very interesting that the character of Chuck was in the episode "The End"...the episode which helped Dean realise that he was wrong in thinking that he and Sam were weaker together, that in fact the opposite was true.  I highly doubt that Chuck's role was simply to inform Dean to treasure toilet paper....given in "Swan Song", we find out that  Chuck is in fact God....this leads me to believe that God is in fact present in the supernatural world and has been there to help the boys...especially given how many times they've come back from the dead.

The reason I mention this is because, I do in fact believe that there was more to this episode in regards to faith and hope than it might seem.  I do lean towards the fact that Billie wasn't only there to simply reap that soul and scare the pants off of Sam Winchester. It was all in what she said and the fact that she said what she did. She told Sam he was unclean in the Biblical sense...pretty on the nose choice of words to insult Sam with. That insult didn't even directly have anything to do with why she was angry with him, which was because he supposedly helped in offing her boss. So the whole, you're unclean was kind of out of left field, which is why I don't believe it to be merely an insult, but a clue. She seemed quite calm and though menacing, she didn't seem to give off the impression of hostility or rage at the "supposed loss" of her boss.  She also told Sam that Death thought his and Dean's returns were amusing, which seemed odd given that Death had mentioned how Dean's messing around with the natural order was actually quite irksome. Death did mention having to clean up his mess did he not? He even went so far as to teach Dean a lesson by making him wear his ring and be Death for a day. That remark kind of threw me...but I kind of hand waved it, as I believe that God is the one who keeps bringing the boys back, and I feel Death is keen on the boys being the ones chosen by God, so he simply just deals with it.  He's even helped once or twice himself.  A kind of a well, if I can't reap em, join em, attitude. :D Billie threatened Sam by noting that this resurrection business has come to its end and she threatened to throw them both into the 'Empty"....a place no one can ever come back from. That threat alone didn't seem right to me. First off,  I don't believe Reapers decide where souls go, their job is simply to reap them and send them to where God chooses the souls to go.  Billie's threat, though scary feels like an empty one to me. Even if she went rogue, I still believe that God trumps rogue Reaper, I even believe God could trump the Empty. I'm therefore leaning very strongly towards the threat wasn't actually meant to be a threat...she gave Sam very important information...nothing can come back from the if the Darkness cannot be killed, as it wasn't able to be killed the first time, then it stands to reason that it needs to be re-contained.....and the only place that the Darkness wouldn't be able to escape from would be the Empty. So basically Billie has given Sam the solution to the boy's problem, I just don't think he understands and realises it just yet.

Billie's threat/insult to Sam while intending to or not, did lead Sam to the church to pray.  Sam praying for everyone but himself doesn't surprise me in the least...his owning up to his mistakes and dealing with them also, typical Sam Winchester SOP. Sam asked for a sign, some direction, and I do believe as some others do that his prayer was in fact answered by God.  It wasn't a direct answer, it was subtle and Sam will eventually figure it out, which leads me to believe he will have more of these visions.  His sign was of his time in the Cage, and while it's too early for Carver to show us anyone in the Cage, he did provide us with subtle hints that it won't be too long now before we do get back to Lucifer/Michael. Sam may not have seen his torturer but he saw his torture...and we all know who did that to Sam. I believe God was sending Sam visions of  the Cage, because the help the boys need, might just start there...with Michael/and or Lucifer.  Carver also made mention of unrest in the Cage as well. I don't believe that Sam's visions a mere coincidence, given that his prayer was answered within, like two minutes after asking for a sign from God. I also don't believe those visions can come from the Cage...if that was a possibility, why bother putting Lucifer in the Cage in the first place? I think as others noted it would've happened already.

"Form and Void"....the Darkness had no form according to lore. When Rowena cast the spell she removed the curse from Dean, but she didn't destroy the mark. To me it seems, she transferred it onto the first child born at the time the mark was removed....and when the Darkness was freed, she entered the vessel with the mark? Does that seem plausible? The Darkness is now form. But as a form it needs to feed, so what does the Darkness need to grow stronger?  Apparently so, and by eating souls.. Death foretold how powerful souls it's all about the souls. Will the Darkness always need to consume souls?  Does Crowley want to get in good with the Darkness so she can consume souls for him...since he cannot have Purgatory?  Or does the Darkness simply eat souls to create a world that is void....that is dark....after all, without a soul, one is evil, cold, empty, without sympathy or empathy...they might even kill..depending on the essence, without a soul, the vessel is void...dark. Is that what the Darkness ultimately wants? Ultimately needs? To live in a dark world...a world without light...a world without hope? As it once was when before she was imprisoned by God....the creator of light.

Seems to me this all goes back to Sam and Dean Winchester.  Sam has always represented the light. The light of knowledge...the light of empathy. He is sympathetic and patient. He has unwavering faith in his brother, and I believe he's still has unwavering faith in God or at the very most God's goodness. Praying is symbolic of that. Sam had promised once to show Dean the light because he believes in it. It's this faith and his belief in the light that will help in the fight against the Darkness. It's his light that has always helped Dean make it through his own darkness....The Winchester's ....the chosen ones....their, always keep fighting attitude, their never ending love for each other and their unending desire and need to save others....that's what will allow them to beat the Darkness.

I don't foresee the boys being punished in the end...when all is said and done, I believe there's only light in the boys future.... ;)

What do you think?

See you again soon for the next eppy's thinky thoughts.  :)


  1. I like your thinky thoughts. I had immediately wondered if Billie had given Sam a clue, simply because it so directly led him to the cure - especially since she added "in the Biblical sense" to it. Since she knew Sam, she knew what she said would both hurt and stick with him. I have a feeling that the reapers aren't much on board with the Darkness taking over and ruling everything and though she might be honest when she is indicating Sam and Dean aren't her favorite people, she also knows that the two of them are the world's biggest hope.

    I am not so sure tho that God sent the cage vision to poor Sam, or that he's been actively involved in their destiny. Joshua told them that God was tired, he didn't want to be involved. Dean was sent to purgatory - where he as a human shouldn't have been, plus it had already been established he had a place in Heaven. Bobby was sent to Hell, which of course he shouldn't have been. I certainly don't think Crowley (who sent Bobby to Hell) trumps God, I think God has been too busy dancing with himself to pay attention.

    If anything would wake him up and get him to pay attention, I think it would be the Darkness but I still not convinced he'll make an appearance. I am about 95% convinced though that Lucifer will - maybe Michael too - but definitely Lucifer who is probably the one that was torturing Sam in Hell and certainly has a hell of a connection with Sam. It would be an interesting plot twist if it was God that opened that cage, I mean no one else seems to have that kind of mojo and if it was God that did it - it would mean that the mark of Cain being destroyed affected Lucifer in a profound way.

    Also I still have a burning, sinking feeling one of the boys will end the season in the Empty. Last season no one died, the writers are cruel gods who enjoy the sounds of our hearts breaking and I am afraid that one - or - eeks - both the boys will end up in the Empty. I don't think they'll stay there of course but -

    My ramblings are nowhere as engaging as your thinky thoughts so I'll end. I love the way you described Sam as light though. It's a beautiful thought about a beautiful man.

  2. Thank you very much for commenting Tammy. I really appreciate your time and consideration.

    You know I've thought about that , that Bobby ended up in hell and Dean in purgatory.....but I admit to being a big picture kind of I actually have a take on that...which you may or may not agree with...but i'll throw it out there :D.

    I know Joshua said God was tired, and I don't doubt he was...but I always assumed he was tired of his children and their petulant behavior. I imagine God tired of the wayward behavior of his children....which is why I imagine he created sam and dean in the first place. Joshua's words to the Winchesters in actuality put the fight into least it put the fight into sam....God "seemingly" giving up caused sam to fight even harder...which eventually got his brother to fight even harder...and in the end they stopped the apocalypse. God even brought Cas back to life, who brought bobby....and even though sam was brought back soulless....he was rescued....and death did decide to help dean get sam's soul back...death did try to protect sam by putting up the wall....I know crap happened along the way...but inevitably ea. action has brought the boys to where they are now....they've conquered their personal demons, they've walked in ea. other's shoes....they finally have what's been missing in their relationship...perspective. I think based on what ea. have experienced, the walk in ea other's shoes, they've finally come to understand why they made the choices they've made...and I think they've finally accepted that they will always save ea. other, they will always die for ea. other....and now they will together fight to save others now...back to saving people...back to the family business, back to the values that they began with eleven years ago.

    as for bobby, Crowley preventing his soul from going to heaven...I really don't think Crowley can overrule God, unless God allowed it. Given that I believe that God is omnipotent....especially in the world of's my personal belief that God allowed Crowley to take bobby because God knew that Sam would rescue him as part of the trials....the only way to complete the trial was to be able to save a soul that didn't belong there....

    1. Yep, yep and yep Anna. I'm totally on board with your take on this. :)

  3. as for dean in purgatory....well, seems to me that dean was never really going to stay there....I found it quite interesting that Benny was given information that dean was his ticket out of purgatory....Benny ended up being dean's bodyguard down guess is that whoever told benny about dean being able to escape purgatory, also informed benny there was a way out for him. I also found it interesting that Benny wasn't given the exact location of the portal until sam left Amelia. I don't believe in coincidences on spn. I've always believed that God had a hand in protecting dean in purgatory ...providing him with benny....I also believe that Sam emotionally broke when he thought his brother was dead and even went so far as to try to hurt himself....I believe God put that dog in front of sam's car....I also believe Sam needed time...I amelia was the lifeline provided to sam and when sam was strong enough, ready to get back to his real life, he left her and headed back to the cabin.....dean getting out of purgatory and dear dead don coming back from the dead all at the same time...I don't think it a coincidence....

    why didn't god just take dean out right away? I thought about that too...I really feel that it was necessary for dean to finally come face to face with his inner demons....he had to face and conquer this belief he's had for so long...that he's a nothing more than a mere killer, someone you don't want at your dinner table. As drastic as it was.....I really believe that the downfall of dean Winchester has led to his rise.....dean became the worst he could be...he became a demon, he was influenced by the mark, he killed and was about to kill his own brother....but he didn't .....his brother's love and faith in him, gave dean the ability to fight the conquer this demon within....he became the worst and beat it...if that kick dean' Winchester's self loathing in the ass I don't know what will.....

    I think dean had to beat his own darkness in order to fight this darkness....

    while guilt may be the driving force...I can at least rest in the knowledge that they've won the battle against their own self loathing...and together they'll have the strength to battle this new a unit...a unit of light

    at least that's how I see it....but i'm forever the optimist.

    1. Again, yep and yep. You give my theories validation. Thanks

  4. Great article, Anna, thank you! That Darkness had just infected the newly born baby sounds more logical than the whole "Darkness was born to this world" thing though the latter sounds, impressive? I like your compare- and contrast on the characters of Sam and Dean with their from-dark-to-light dynamics. As to God, it's all very well, the old man gets tired and leaves the building, quite understood; but the main problem remains - why to hide? Maybe the creator in SPNworld is not omnipotent afterwards, and needs help? Is it where they're going? That He's given away too much (all these innumerable souls), and is able to manifest Himself only now and then, playing through pain so to say? Just my two coins.

  5. the way I tend to look at it....I kind of believe that Chuck, is in fact God. God may have left the building, but for me he didn't leave the city...LOL. I think he's hiding in plain sight....and the way I see God...God is the father and the angels are his children...humans are his children as well....I guess the way I see a parent does with any child, they will cater to their needs, but at some point the child has to grow and become an adult....they will have to make their own decisions, hopefully ones that guide them on the right path....a parent can help their children as much as they can...but eventually they do have to allow them to make their own mistakes, their own decisions....and hope for the best...I think God still has hope for humanity and the angels....the angels, through Cas.....and humanity through the me the very existence of cas and the Winchesters....well that is God showing that he cares and he's still very much out there....

    the hiding...I guess it's a way of keeping an eye on his children, without them knowing he's keeping an eye on his children. if you get what I mean....:D

    Thank you so much for reading....I really appreciate hear from you guys.

  6. It's interesting, I thought that Billie's quote about Death finding the Winchesters perpetual living thing amusing, was really odd. He always seemed a little pissed with the way Sam and Dean played with the natural order. And once the Apocolypse had past and Michael and Lucifer were locked up, those boys were not needed as a vessel - really, the bringing back became all about them not letting go. WHICH I LOVE!

    I thought Billie was talking about the weird disease caused by the crazy fart when she was saying that Sam was unclean, bibically speaking. It's just that we are hyper aware of how Sam has always felt about his demon blood thing and so know that for Sam, that was one hell of an insult - whether Billie meant it as such, I'm not sure. But I'm also not sure she meant it as a clue. I think she's pretty pissed, and I think she probably was meaning it as a slur. Sam is just sooo smart, and figured it all out from that. And thankfully, Dean packed the jug of oil!

    And though, yes, I think the Empty was a big thing for us to hear (as was the boys dying thing) I feel like that was a threat, not a secretive hand. The Reapers would be told where to take the souls, but we have seen them go rogue, and they could quite possibly toss one into the Empty even though they were instructed otherwise. Basically, I thought Billie's job was to impart some mythology exposition, for both Sam and us to be aware of.

    I like the idea of the baby being the first born baby and the Darkness just hitching a ride. That certainly makes sense, as does the fact that the mother of the baby died, and most of the people in town, including the dad. That to me, looked like the Darkness covering her tracks by getting rid of any and all witnesses. Especially as it was so confined to that one town.

    I think God is around. I think he's listening in. He may even intervene now and then without us knowing. I'm not sure those visions were from him though, unless it was because he wanted to point Sam towards Lucifer. I wondered if Lucifer's mark was also erased (if he still had one) and that was why he was screaming in the cage - and maybe as Sam has a connection to Lucifer, Lucifer's screaming is bringing up something in Sam. Maybe it is the unrest and connection that is making Sam see these weird visions. Or something/someone other than God is out there pushing Sam's buttons. It reminds me of something Jensen said in his meet and greet, that something was circling Sam - pursuing him, but it wasn't necessarily evil. I think Sam and us are meant to be confused, and I wouldn't put it past the show to misdirect us all towards thinking that it was the sign Sam asked for!

    Great thoughts as always Anna! Can't wait to see what we discover this week!