Supernatural Think Tank - Anna's Thinky Thoughts on Supernatural 12x10 Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets

-by Anna

For the record I just want to put this out there for those of you who might not already know this.  I'm a Samgirl. I am.  I love Sam Winchester with all my heart.  I love Jared with all that I have.  He's just my cat's meow. Now that I put that out there, let me put this out there as well. I love Dean Winchester.  I love Jensen Ackles.  I love my Winchesters and I love J2. 

With that I hope you'll allow me to indulge myself in a bit of a cathartic emotional release and not judge me too harshly for it.

First and foremost, our boys are heroes. They are the epitome of what goodness is and they are flawed and make mistakes and try harder than any other character I've ever seen to be the kind of people this world needs more of. The Winchesters are truly inspirational. I just wanted to make clear, how much I admire these two characters. I'm going to take this opportunity, now that you all know the love I share for these boys,to let Dean Winchester have it. I know, pretty risky given that this site is a Dean site. I was going to refrain from even writing this down, but then I thought, why not. Just because there's a trait in someone that just drives you crazy, doesn't make one love them any less.....and given how much I know so many of you adore Dean Winchester, any flaws he might have doesn't take away from that, it doesn't for me.  Like I said, both our boys are flawed, that don't mean we don't love them to the extreme.

So, here goes:

I don't know about any of you, but I just wanted to punch Dean in the nose last night, even more than that, I wanted Cas to punch Dean in the nose. There, I said it!

If someone were to ask me "if you could, what is the one thing you would change about Dean Winchester?", the answer would be his hypocrisy. For me, it's Dean's most unattractive quality.  Dean treating Cas the way he did just put my panties in a twist, especially when Dean noted how Cas just took Ishram's crap and let him talk like that to him. I was all WTF?   Seriously, how could Cas take that treatment from Ishram, when Dean had spent most of the beginning of the episode treating Cas the way he did? I'm sorry Deangirls, but that just irked me. It's not just that he said that, but that Dean was giving Cas crap to begin with. With all due respect, Dean Winchester really doesn't have a right to be pissed at Cas given his own history of bad decisions with horrific consequences. Don't get me wrong, both boys are guilty of that, it's just that Sam was the understanding one in this scenario and the peacemaker as well. Dean more than anyone should've understood where Cas was coming from, given that he's been in those same shoes many times before. I get it, I heard Dean, still, it didn't give Dean carte blanche to treat Cas that way, especially since it was more than likely that Dean would've killed Billie himself. Let's get real folks, there is no way on Chuck's green earth that Dean would've allowed Sam to go to the empty. There is also no way, like at all, that Sam would've let Dean go to the empty. Neither brother would ever sacrifice or let the other sacrifice themselves to an eternity of nothingness. So logic tells me that both Winchesters would've gone off with Billie leaving Cas instructions to look out for their mom.

The problem that arose was Mom. They never called on her in the first place, she's been off doing whatever, so I'm leaning towards they didn't expect Mary to be there. Her presence changed everything as did her refusal to let her sons die.  Mom showing up wasn't what either of them expected and Mom willing to sacrifice herself is most definitely an unacceptable consequence for the boys. Given what we all know about our boys, either one or both of them at that point would've taken Billie out if they could have. She had them pinned and they couldn't move. Cas merely did the job for them and if he hadn't Mom would be dead right now. Dean might be all calm now worrying about consequences, but given their long long history, and knowing how much he loves his family, especially his mom, I think I can honestly presume it's safe to say that consequences were not on his mind when a gun was at his mother's head.

Cas made the decision to take Billie out allowing for all the Winchesters to live and most likely prevented one of the boys from breaking the oath by doing it themselves. Even if Mom wasn't there, I still believe Cas wouldn't have done anything differently. What Dean owed Cas was a thank you and some appreciation, instead of giving him the silent treatment and trying to make him feel bad for the decision Cas made.

 Ah...Decisions. One of Dean's other flaws is his tendency to make decisions for people. If Dean thinks it's the right thing to do, he will make a decision for someone whether they would've agreed to it or not, most often we've witnessed it with Sam. We've seen it when he brought Sam back, when he got Sam's soul back (though that one I totally agreed with), and possessed Sam with an angel. We also saw it with Lisa. (moving them around, keeping them on lockdown, erasing their memories of him). I remember what Sam had said to Dean in WNTTAK. Dean had declared that Kevin needed to find the way to close the gates of hell. Sam had noted that free will only applied to Dean. Dean never gave Kevin the option to choose. My point is that if Dean thinks something is right or wrong, he has often made the decision to do it or not, whether or not the person he was deciding for agreed or not. Don't get me wrong, I selfishly agreed with Dean on some of those occasions.  I also understand where this stems from.  Dean has always been in the parental role, and these are things that parents often do. He's often lived by the motto of do as I say and not as I do...again a very parental trait. I think what Dean needs to understand is that people make decisions because they too have a point of view, and it might not be one Dean agrees with. Even so he should still try to understand and respect it as well. I know in this respect Dean has come a long way, but in this ep it seems Dean may have forgotten. Cas made a decision to save the Winchesters because he witnessed what the world became without them in it. They were only gone two months and so many died because they weren't there to save them. Cas wants the Winchesters in his life, don't get me wrong, they are his family. More than that though, the world needs the Winchesters.  Cas' view is that without the Winchesters the world would be worse off than any cosmic consequence Cas would have to face, so he saved them. This was the decision Cas came to and one I think Dean needs to understand and respect a little more.

Don't worry folks, I didn't forget about Sam and his flawed beautiful self. You know what one of Sam's flaws is....there are more times than not that he doesn't speak up for himself. Cas too for that matter. They take more of Dean's hits (literal & figurative) than not. You think Sam's got an incredible gift with those puppy dog eyes  Dean has an amazing gift as well.... those who love him, don't want to intentionally let him down. They don't want his wrath either. They don't like when Dean is angry with them or at something they did. When it comes to Dean, there is definitely not an "I don't give a damn what he thinks attitude". (I think in Sam's case it's because deep down in there he saw Dean as not only his brother, but in a parental role. Sam's most definitely shown more respect for Dean than his Dad.) It's quite the opposite actually. This includes Cas as well. The way I look at it, in a way that has stunted Dean's ability to recognise his own hypocrisy. If Cas or Sam would've just really let Dean have it once in a while when he does that, he might not be prone to doing it as often.

I totally understand and sympathize....Dean is worried for Cas, as I'm sure Sam is too. I just feel that he should've given him less attitude and a simple gesture of appreciation and thanks... Especially given that Cas pulled a Winchester and saved them all. I know you can argue that Sam didn't utter the words thank you either. That is true, but I know that Sam appreciates Cas by his actions...He is the one who was playing peacemaker. He wasn't giving Cas grief. Sam of all people understands Cas' intentions and motivations and he simply cannot fault him for them. That is Sam showing his appreciation. One can argue the same for Dean....his treatment of Cas was his way of acknowledging what Cas had done.

Trust me, I know the boys are never going to get rid of every flaw, it's not possible and I don't want them to....but I am of the mind that after these 11 1/2 wonderful seasons, given all that Dean has done in the past, even if for what he deemed to be the best, at this stage of the game he should recognise when he's being hypocritical or at the very most alter the way he shows his affection so as to not make someone feel bad.

Who's to say there would be cosmic consequences anyway?  Maybe Billie lied to scare the Winchesters into going through with the deal. Let's face it, Billie has been jonesing for a Winchester since she first arrived, who's to say she wouldn't say anything to get them to come with her.  Even if she wasn't lying, the boys are the ones who made the blood oath, not Cas. Cas is the one who killed Billie, and from where I stand or at this moment sit, that's just your typical run of the mill angel on angel kill....been done before, will be done again. Isn't Death a way more powerful entity than a mere reaper?  I haven't seen any repercussions due to his demise. If we were going to get cosmic consequences, wouldn't it be more likely because the Grim Reaper himself died? Just saying (although maybe there ain't no consequences, because Death ain't dead). 

Let's say there will be cosmic consequences. Cas made the decision so Cas will deal with the consequences when and if they come. I'm sure the boys will be right there with him to help, and they will deal with them together, as they always do. If there is one thing that the Winchesters taught Cas, it's that family is worth it. Regardless of any consequences that have arisen due to the choices Sam and Dean have made, their love for each other has always been what's saved the world. Cas has witnessed that time and time again, so it's not a hard stretch to see why Cas would follow their example. It's the truest testimony to his humanity, which might come into play when dealing with Lucifer's spawn.

That's it. I just needed to get that out of me and writing it all down just makes me feel so much better. I hope I didn't piss off all you Deangirls out there. Like I said, both boys are flawed. Both boys are human.Both boys are heroes. I love them both. It's just the way Dean was treating Cas really bothered me and I needed to just vent...which is kind of funny really, because I'm not even a Cas girl.   I was proud of Cas last week and I totally respected the crap out of him and I just thought he deserved more appreciation than he got. So Cas, that little rant was for you. 

So how bout we actually discuss the episode itself, because it really was a good one.

I watched it twice now and I have to say I really liked this episode. I really enjoyed Alicia Witt and I liked her character. I felt for her and understood her need for revenge. She was a mother with a child who was taken from her simply because she wouldn't have anything to do with Isham. It felt like any other news story you see on television, only this one involved angels.  I didn't blame Lily at all for going after those who killed her child. They were angels after all and it's not like there would be any justice legally for her.  Like John, it's what kept Lily going, it gave her purpose and hopefully, after centuries of waiting, she got some semblance of peace.  I hope Lily can find a way to keep moving forward, maybe one day finding purpose other than revenge.   She would make a good ally and I hope to see her again.  I also liked the idea that she wasn't a witch, but she used angel magic.  It was also interesting that every time she used it she lost part of her soul.  We've seen this canon before, using the soul's power.  Henry tapped into it to time travel.  Balthazar had also explained how powerful the soul is. It's why Cas was trying to collect them in s6, so he could defeat Raphael.   I also really liked the continuity as well of Sam knowing what it's like to lose one's soul, as he was explaining it to Lily.  I just adore how Sam gets along with practically everyone....except Crowley...

I'd like to take this moment to appreciate Sam Winchester.  I always giggle at the fact that despite him being the youngest of TFW, Sam is the one who acts most like an adult. I am always impressed by Sam's capacity to empathise/understand where someone is coming from.  Unlike Dean's somewhat negative reaction to Cas' decision to save them, Sam on the other hand was both understanding and grateful. He defended Cas and recognised that Cas didn't do anything different than they have done in the past. Sam knew there could be cosmic consequences, but he respected Cas' decision and supported him. I just respected the out of him. I also love how well Sam knows his brother...the countdown to when Dean would go into the restaurant because he couldn't wait it out...tickled me to no end.  I also loved that the moment Lily mentioned that Ishram would kill Dean, Sam just had this look on his face and totally went into kick ass mode.  Just a side note,  Sam pretty much always connects the innocent/victim of the week, but has anyone else noticed, that this season in particular, Sam has connected to almost every single female that has guest starred? 

I was proud of Cas too.  I loved that whatever Dean dished out he gave it right back. Of course they didn't make it easy on Sam having to be the peacemaker, but it certainly made me smile.  I was glad to see Cas stick up for himself for a change.   This is the second episode in a row where Cas used his angel bladekilling someone in the back....guess badass Cas is finally making his reappearance after all....yay.  I enjoyed the contrast between pre-Winchester Cas and post Winchester Cas. You can really see how much Cas has evolved and became more human.  I wonder if Cas will ever return to Heaven, or if Earth will become his permanent home. I do wonder if his humanity will trump his angelic side when it comes to dealing with Lucifer's spawn.  Should we worry that Dean seems to be reminding Cas a lot that he's family?

I know where's the Dean love....don't worry, it's here.  Even though it was a pot/kettle thing, I did appreciate that Dean didn't care for, like at all, how Isham treated Cas. Despite Dean's ragging, he never hesitated to go with Cas on this mission. I also did appreciate that he finally explained to Cas that his behavior stemmed from worry. Dean does that with family and he reminds Cas once again that he is part of theirs. 

If we really take a deeper look at this episode, it's just about a mother seeking revenge for the death of her child. It makes me wonder about Mary. Will there be conflict between her and the boys? Judging from the conversation the boys had with Cas at the end, this baby is dangerous to the world, yet still, it is a baby and when Dean asked Cas what are we going to do about it...Cas said "we'll drink and hope to find another way". He was referring to an alternative to having to kill the child.  Sam and Dean have never been ones to kill children, like ever.  They wouldn't kill the Antichrist.  I wonder if they will be able to kill Lucifer's spawn if it came down to it.

Mary's stance can go either way I guess. She can take the protective mother pov or the hunter pov. I wonder if the BMOL will find out and what the boys will do about them when they most likely do.  Should make for an interesting second half.

Everyone did an amazing job once again.  It was good to see Ian Tracey again (Krissy's dad). He did a great job playing the bad guy this time.  As far as angels, I liked how they were used in this story.  I do wonder if we will see more of them once Lucifer's baby is born.

That's all I got for this week.  Hope you enjoy the read....

-Anna